THis is reminiscent of the "if they don't have bread then let them eat cake" type mentality. Paksakke serve a good purpose in that they reduce the unnecessary cost of packaging. Also, who are we to dictate the morals of drinking to others... again reminiscent of the Prohibition mentality. Rather concentrate on something else !!!

Only those who waste their money on things like that will make a comment like this. Did you know that alcohol is one of the greatest causes of rape, abuse and other sorts of crime. I think that you are more narrow-minded than you think!!!

The tone of your answer indicates that you would be a perfect candidate for a Liberal. Sadly, alchohol is not the cause of rapes, abuse and other sorts of crime as you put it. It the basic lack of morality and the lack of the death sentence that is. As for paksak wyn, if I prefer it in that form of packaging is that not my right to choose ...

alcholism is a disease. it is not a moral failing.
I dont think that this will curb the abuse of alcohol - trust me if you're an addict, your compulsion is so high that you will go to great lengths to get it.
I do think that it will make it less accessible to abusers -which is a more socially responsible attitude.

its about corporate governance - am i making profit responsibly? if I am selling a product off to people who are prone to addiction (which means that you develop a physical dependency to a lethal substance), I have to question whether I am comfortable with making money off the possible pain of others.

again - its that tricky question of freedom. you aint going to stop people from abusing booze by changing the packaging. But you could start donating money to build the much needed rehab facilities in low income areas - where addiction is highest and where facilities are virtually non-existant.

if it aint papsak, its gonna be autumn harvest, or even worse... meths! stopping papsaks aint gonna do S*&%!

I agree that it should be a matter of choice. Alcoholism does not stem from the free availability of alcohol but rather from a number of social and communal dysfunctions which exist in all societies. My family hails from Sweden, where the government has seen fit to regulate alcohol sales to such an extent that when Swedes do get the chance to have a drink, they drink to fall down. Although South Africa suffers from more alcohol and drug abuse related crimes than Sweden, I believe we need to defend our freedom of choice, one of the cornerstones of our world-leading constitution. I quote this document: "Everyone shall enjoy all universally accepted fundamental rights, freedoms and civil liberties, which shall be provided for and protected by entrenched and justifiable provisions in the Constitution". Lest we follow George Bush's lead - he is at the moment trying to make changes to the American constitution to reduce the rights of the people. Why? To make gay marraige illegal. Talk about going backwards.

The drinking habits of alcoholics will not change simply by making it more expensive. Instead of addressing the underlying issues connected with alcoholism like unemployment and poverty, more expensive booze might be robbing poor families of even more money, better spent on food and essentials.

I remember as being a child myself the copious amounts of alchohol me and two friends consumed as senior pupils every weekend. Friday came and the first thing we did was buy a papsak and a "candlestick" poke whatever it was called on the day and we where set for a weekend of fun and debouchery, but what made those days different was the fact that we had corporal punishment and knew when to stop or take control of the situation whereas this day and age our children are wild and out of control and have no sense of responsibility that leads to pregnancy and future problems whether its alcholism or drug abuse. My brother owns a table grape producing farm and his biggest problem is alchohol abuse of his farm workers who would spend there hard earned wages rather on alchohol than food for their children. Patheticbut thats the reality of things.

If one looks at who wants to eradicate the Pap Sak, its not only the ARA, but also the wine industry. check out the link. http://www.wine.co.za/News/News.aspx?NEWSID=5710

I am in the wine trade and believe that there is a market for Box wine , but some of the crap in a pap sak is not fit to distill into brandy even.

Mark, you just made liberal's day and also proved why I am for the banning of papsak. My reason is definitely based on information and studies. I think that it is imperative to realise that alcohol is ONE of the cause. Let me stress: ONE of the causes of crimes. i know of experience that schoolkids who cant afford wine will opt for the papsak and some of today's kids can't curb themselves from violence. I also know that the unemployed will gather a few cents from old bottles to buy their precious papsak. I really think the cheaper, the more accessible.

Its long overdue and it will rid society of the cheap wines that farmers flog off to their workers and the low income earners lap up.Its time the Wine foundation can get involve with the education of wines to the community at large and promote responsible drinking.

True that LIBERAL reader and Winston!!!!!!!!

So .... what is the cheap wine going to be sold in?

The real culprits are wineries up the west coast and in the orange river area. There production is huge and of an inferior qulity because they plant high yielding warm weather loving grapes. The UK market, our biggest export market is full of crap wine, but it's packaged ok.(no wine in a bag there)

It sounds just a little too pat; what industry is likely to ditch 17% of its volume, in the interests of community health or well-being, when the product hasn't been banned? (not yet anyhow)

The sots will find something else to get their daily 'dop' and, it's likely to be something concocted by some enterprising sympathiser with an eye for a quick buck and no conscience whatsoever in terms of what he flogs and who it might harm!

It's about as effective as chucking out disposable lighters, in the hope that it might cut the incidence of smoking.

I think this will not have any inpact on the poor people who drink from this saak, other than those who produce the sak itself. I think they will continue to buy and drink from whatever is there.

after 20 years in the liquor trde it is some times funny to see how stupid a lot of people are in the trade and outside the trade.in the late 80's there were cheap house brand 5liter box wines and every body drank it and the wine is still the same as before.a lot of people bought the 5 l box and took the foil bag out of the box because it was more conveniant to carry home and left the box behind rhat is how the word papsak was born not in any other way and all races drank it and took the bag out of the box because it was easy to store in the fridge also.
What is the difference between a person drinking a case of 750ml beer ( 9 liters) or a bag wine .what is the difference between a liquor store selling 60 000 cases ( 540 000 liters ) of beer and 8000 boxes ( 40 000 liters )of wine so the true story is to educate people.the the last question is what is the difference between people or getting drunk at a pub or some event and a person getting drunk in a tavern legal or not in my eyes there is none

More exspensive wine, means less money to feed the baby...

Smokers have kept on going no matter what the law, the price or the weather! I'm sure the same will apply to drinkers and as Johan says, there will just be less money available for the essentials to feed their families. Kids will find a way, too.

Most of u have obviously never been to Bonteheuwel, Manenberg or Lavender Hill - EVER...

My people are strung out on Virginia..

This papsak nonsense won't even make a dent in the shebeen business on the Cape Flats...

My first job in 1979 - when i was in Sub A - was "serving" in my best friend's mom's "smokkelhys".. and the dominating product since way back then has been Virginia..

so they can can the papsak, puta lid on it.. or squash it...
i doubt it makes any difference to "Lippe", "Ougat" or "Slams" from the "Kyp Flets"..

Banning the papsak won't make even a tiny little difference to the scourge of alcoholism in this country. Those who are strung out on papsak at the moment will simply find an alternative in the form of a close enough substitute. It may be a bit more expensive, but they will find a way to cope, whether that means less money for food or being a bit late with the rent. If the reason for the papsak being banned is to curb alcoholism, then it has failed before the campaign has even started.

I am shocked and stunned at the narrow-mindedness that came up with this idea.

Alcoholism doesn't care about race, gender, politics or wealth. So why should it care about packaging.

Alcohol by default cannot be the "CAUSE" of rape, violence and crime, for heavens sake, the abuser is the cause. Changing the packaging to a 5l plastic bottle is not going to change this.

There are USA soldiers killed 1000's with not a drop of alcohol involved!! How do they do it?

Alcoholism does not stem from the free availability of alcohol but rather from a number of social and communal dysfunctions which exist in all societies. My family hails from Sweden, where the government has seen fit to regulate alcohol sales to such an extent that when Swedes do get the chance to have a drink, they drink to fall down. Although South Africa suffers from more alcohol and drug abuse related crimes than Sweden, I believe we need to defend our freedom of choice, one of the cornerstones of our world-leading constitution. I quote this document: "Everyone shall enjoy all universally accepted fundamental rights, freedoms and civil liberties, which shall be provided for and protected by entrenched and justifiable provisions in the Constitution". Lest we follow George Bush's lead - he is at the moment trying to make changes to the American constitution to reduce the rights of the people. Why? To make gay marraige illegal. Talk about going backwards.

I don't believe banning the papsak is the solution. Alcoholics will just spend more on cheap bottled wine and spend less on necessities such as food. (maybe they should consider banning cheap alcohol altogether!)

The banning of papsack does influence the general alchohol intake of our population but once again it grabs from the little the poor already have. Instead of banning one type of drink we should rather put a bigger restriction on alchohol - period. Instead of stopping for fines and imprisoning people of stupid warrants of arrests beacause of outstanding parking fines people should be given warrants of arrests for druncken driving then imprisoned for a weekend if not adhered to. How many accidents alone does alchohol have a play in yet cigarretts are being cornered from each angle. Isn't that a bit contradictory? On a completely non-biased opinion - if you're going to implement restriction - do it properly and restrict things that actually will end up helping our community. Instead of papsack why not bann vodka and beer? I'm sure that would also make a huge impact? At least then everyone would still be able to afford it instead of having the poor rob inorder to maintain their habit whilst the rich enjoy their habit in plentifull and killing half our people on the roads in their fancy BMW's, Merc's, VW's and what else? I've left office parties on Friday evening where people cannot remember how they got home and lost 4 hours of the evening but yet they are never reprimanded or caught. I think it's sad and sickening in the same instance. DO SOMETHING ABOUT ALCHOHOL - AND DO IT RIGHT !!!!!

This all seems wrong somehow. Isn't gambling a big problem? Oh dear - let's ban all the 50c machines - make R50 minimum tables. Same thing I think.
The papsak is not only used by poor alcohlics - they are the best thing to take camping or away for a weekend, etc. No broken glass and can be squashed up really small for disposal. Hell - I've even used an empty one as a pillow!
I agree with the people who say that this is not the solution - alcoholism needs to be addressed. Properly.

Papsak is na, i mean you just buy one on a Saturday morning and you are sorted for the whole day. And it works out to less than R10 a litre which is also na. Skip is also dadelik.